Vaccination debate

Julie Delaney

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What are your thoughts on the vaccination and the priority groups as they stand at the moment?
I think that school worker and ALL people who are having to work during the lockdown should be prioritised; we have no choice but to work, we cannot stay home etc. I am all for protecting the elderly and the clinically vulnerable etc. it is a contentious issue, but, I have always nailed my colours to the mast.
 
Interesting one this! Opens many cans of worms on medications and vaccines! I'm not into doom and gloom but there is a lot of money to be made and hefty grants out of developing vaccines and cures for diseases. I have friends that work for them.
Why don't you think we have seen a cure for HIV or cancer with all the money being chucked at it? Why say we have found a cure when you can have all this cash flowing in?
Medical companies always seem to do well and I've never heard of mass unemployment from these companies!
Didn't they say thalidomide, Triludin, DDT and agent orange was safe? Plus please don't forget GWS (Gulf War Syndrome)
Be careful what you wish for!
 
Interesting one this! Opens many cans of worms on medications and vaccines! I'm not into doom and gloom but there is a lot of money to be made and hefty grants out of developing vaccines and cures for diseases. I have friends that work for them.
Why don't you think we have seen a cure for HIV or cancer with all the money being chucked at it? Why say we have found a cure when you can have all this cash flowing in?
Medical companies always seem to do well and I've never heard of mass unemployment from these companies!
Didn't they say thalidomide, Triludin, DDT and agent orange was safe? Plus please don't forget GWS (Gulf War Syndrome)
Be careful what you wish for!

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Interesting one this! Opens many cans of worms on medications and vaccines! I'm not into doom and gloom but there is a lot of money to be made and hefty grants out of developing vaccines and cures for diseases. I have friends that work for them.
Why don't you think we have seen a cure for HIV or cancer with all the money being chucked at it? Why say we have found a cure when you can have all this cash flowing in?
Medical companies always seem to do well and I've never heard of mass unemployment from these companies!
Didn't they say thalidomide, Triludin, DDT and agent orange was safe? Plus please don't forget GWS (Gulf War Syndrome)
Be careful what you wish for!
Sorry but the notion that anyone is holding back a cure for HIV or Cancer is absolutely slanderous. Remove thine tinfoil hat, Blackadder.

HIV is an incredibly complex virus and despite that, there HAVE been breakthroughs in recent times in the fight against it:
1 - PEP, an emergency HIV drug that can stop you becoming infected with HIV if taken soon after contact.
2 - PrEP, a pre-exposure drug taken by HIV negative people to prevent infection if they are in contact with an HIV positive person.
3 - Antiretroviral drugs taken by HIV positive persons, after a full course the virus is undetectable in the blood stream within 6 MONTHS.

The combination of the 3 above means that HIV is no longer a death sentence to anyone with access to that help. Of course, thats only in 'the west', sadly HIV is still rampant and dangerous in developing countries but that is obviously due to lack of support and funding rather than Big Pharma holding them back.

As for Cancer, instead of wasting any more of my own breath explaining it, I found this fun little animated TED Talk on the subject :)

I'm no bootlicker for any company or '''''big pharma'''' kind of thing, they are businesses like any other, however its absolutely daft to try and claim that they are holding back cures just because of money.

That would be like saying 'oh I bet this company has a 100% effective COVID vaccine but they are holding it back to get more money' have you SEEN how much money is being spent on securing vaccine doses?? Don't be daft! There is far more money to be made selling cures than there is in holding them back.
 
I think everyone should consider carefully whether to accept the vaccine when offered, bearing in mind the trials are not due to finish until the beginning of 2023, also the mRNA vaccines are brand new technology & nobody knows the effect on the body in the medium & long term.
 
As for the COVID vaccine groups, in my view the only ''correct'' option would be to keep everyone at home until everyone is vaccinated because as we have seen in the news etc, people can still be carriers even if they aren't sick so technically no-one is safe until EVERYONE is vaccinated :p

That is unrealistic though and I understand why they are putting the most vulnerable to serious disease first, however I do feel that if schools are to re-open this year, I think that school staff need to be vaccinated as well, at the very least, teachers and classroom assistants who have unavoidable contact with students day in, day out. At least we as tech's have a level of disconnect from them for the most part.
 
I think everyone should consider carefully whether to accept the vaccine when offered, bearing in mind the trials are not due to finish until the beginning of 2023, also the mRNA vaccines are brand new technology & nobody knows the effect on the body in the medium & long term.
The only issue is that you might not have immunity, the RNA vaccines just produce parts of the virus for a short time, any effects are going to be less than getting covid-19.
 
I think everyone should consider carefully whether to accept the vaccine when offered, bearing in mind the trials are not due to finish until the beginning of 2023, also the mRNA vaccines are brand new technology & nobody knows the effect on the body in the medium & long term.

mRNA vaccines are totally inert to every part of the body aside from the immune cells it is aimed at so there is no long term danger. The only side effects shown so far by the COVID vaccines have been the same as the flu jab:

''Strong but transient reactogenic effects were reported in trials of novel COVID-19 RNA vaccines; most people will not experience severe side effects which include fever and fatigue. Severe side effects is defined as that which limits everyday activity.'' (https://science.sciencemag.org/content/370/6520/1022)

In my view, the only real long term danger is being stuck in this pandemic lockdown for years upon years if people start refusing to vaccinate.

Even if the vaccine gave me severe flu-like symptoms for a month, I would still sing its praises over the possibility of catching covid, being plugged into a ventilator with a high chance of not waking up again!!
 
To play the devils advocate... It is interestingly convenient, from the pharma profits point of view, that the solution offered is essentially a "subscription model" (with the stream of revenue steadily flowing)
That's what covid vaccine is at the moment, with possible annual (?) vaccinations.
 
mRNA vaccines are totally inert to every part of the body aside from the immune cells it is aimed at so there is no long term danger. The only side effects shown so far by the COVID vaccines have been the same as the flu jab:

''Strong but transient reactogenic effects were reported in trials of novel COVID-19 RNA vaccines; most people will not experience severe side effects which include fever and fatigue. Severe side effects is defined as that which limits everyday activity.'' (https://science.sciencemag.org/content/370/6520/1022)

In my view, the only real long term danger is being stuck in this pandemic lockdown for years upon years if people start refusing to vaccinate.

Even if the vaccine gave me severe flu-like symptoms for a month, I would still sing its praises over the possibility of catching covid, being plugged into a ventilator with a high chance of not waking up again!!
Thank you BioBee
It is understandable that people are fearful, the way our government have messed us about. However, I bet if the vaccines had been slow in coming, there would be people saying the drug companies were sitting on them to force the price up.
 
On the original question, I do think teachers and school workers should move up the queue. They are not a huge group in national terms and include some over-60s (moi, e.g.) and 50-60s so would not involve pushing a huge number of people down the queue. It would facilitate a more confident and long lasting reopening of schools and save parents' sanity
 
The committee in charge of the rollout have said they're leaning towards a second priority list based on profession, to be rolled out once the current one based mainly on vulnerability has been exhausted. So we will see...
 
To play the devils advocate... It is interestingly convenient, from the pharma profits point of view, that the solution offered is essentially a "subscription model" (with the stream of revenue steadily flowing)
That's what covid vaccine is at the moment, with possible annual (?) vaccinations.
But the annual flu jab is the same, not because of any profit based coincidence but because the flu virus is constantly evolving and every year requires a different cocktail for the vaccine.

It will be the same for COVID, we have seen different strains and variants appear already, so honestly it wouldn't surprise me if vaccines had to be a regular occurance rather than a one off.

As the process is streamlined and put to the test, I bet we will get to a stage (like the flu jab) where people in high risk categories are offered an annual jab and anyone else who wants one can get one if they want.
 
Thank you BioBee
It is understandable that people are fearful, the way our government have messed us about. However, I bet if the vaccines had been slow in coming, there would be people saying the drug companies were sitting on them to force the price up.
Yes it is understandable and I for one agree that the govt has been messing this about since the beginning, absolute shambles all over but to be fair I think they are doing the best they can with the vaccine options for the moment anyway but who knows what will happen.
 
But the annual flu jab is the same, not because of any profit based coincidence but because the flu virus is constantly evolving and every year requires a different cocktail for the vaccine.

It will be the same for COVID, we have seen different strains and variants appear already, so honestly it wouldn't surprise me if vaccines had to be a regular occurance rather than a one off.

As the process is streamlined and put to the test, I bet we will get to a stage (like the flu jab) where people in high risk categories are offered an annual jab and anyone else who wants one can get one if they want.
I agree and disagree :D
The way things look like at the moment, with virus mutating at a pretty energetic pace, comparison to annual flu jab is inescapable.
The problem is, covid isn't flu. For one it affects nervous system in ways that we don't fully comprehend yet (interesting podcast on the topic here:
(https://www.npr.org/2021/01/12/956020657/how-covid-19-affects-the-brain) and then there's the 'long covid'.
Secondly there's the question of how long will the immunity last (three months?)
Thirdly, even though we have a flu jab, in season the hospitals are pretty much operating at capacity (at least that's my understanding, feel free to correct me on this). So I assume if the NHS has to account for an annual covid season (on top of flu), we are talking about possible changes to seasonal capacity of hospitals.
Don't get me wrong. Given an option of getting a vaccine or not, I'm there with my sleeve rolled up (even bearing in mind all those efficacy numbers are press releases not peer reviewed studies)
It just may not be an immediate silver bullet everyone is hoping for. I would be happier if there was also something else out there (remember Tamiflu during H1N1? )
 
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