"3.3% is a good deal !"

Technician Q said:
My husband is a maths lecturer and they basically assume none of their students have done anything other than show aptitude for the subject so their first year is basically redoing the whole of A-level properly.
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I remember the foundation year of my degree. 4 lessons of 2 hours doing numeracy. Our first lesson covered BODMAS. Over 100 students who were all going for Science subjects doing Year 7 level maths
We had an exam in the subject that summer. I was at Busted the night before and still got 85%
 
I swear the most common sentence on here is "I can't afford to strike" followed by apathy and zero intentions to do even what wouldn't cost money. Email people, send letters, walk to the local MP office, talk about your issues to those who might not know. Costs of these = minimal or free.

My question however is: with ever increasing interest and ever stagnating pay cuts, surely it comes down to not being able to afford to strike but also not able to afford to carry on as is.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. So might as well?
I know there are some who seem more content to just leave this profession to die off or to leave the next generation of science technicians to get hurt or to cause hurt due to inexperience and apathy. I am not.
Given that some unions have spoken about financial support for those on strike...it seems the better option.
Especially if they created a fund for some who can in fact afford to strike, to be able to provide some funds to those that cannot.
We are after all, in the same sinking boat and a longer strike combined with multiple unions and disciplines including teachers...that would actually do something and all of us would be better off for it.

As for those wondering where the government would get the money...for the love of Jibbers Crabst the government can suddenly find funds for...
  • red carpet for visiting leaders no matter how vile
  • war
  • tax breaks for giant corporations and super wealthy individuals
  • bonuses and/or wages of MPs who sleep through their jobs
  • security for our ridiculous amount of living ex-PMs
  • payouts for avoidable safety incidents (which better pay and more hours for safety positions such as ours would reduce)
...maybe just let them figure out themselves where the money is coming from for this one.
I'm sure they can find the money.
I am certain they can.
If for an incredibly specific example Sir David Attenborough were to die tomorrow I guarantee they'd find funds for a funeral which would cost more than our wage increase (which, yes, the man is great, but still the point stands and I'm sure if he were given the choice of the two he'd choose school safety instead).
After all they keep cutting funding to schools, year after year telling schools to save more money. There is no such thing as exponential savings. It's not "finding" money it's giving us back what was stolen as we are squeezed beyond dry.

Some councils are literally picking your pockets with their offers of pay "increases" and then telling you they don't have change to spare when you can't afford the bus.
Time to get the mousetraps out.
Get angry and get proactive with it: write to your unions, MPs, to the PM, make it known that you are willing, wanting and needing to strike but you are not financially comfortable to be able to exercise your HUMAN RIGHT (Article 11) and that it is their fault that you are having to exercise this in other ways by messaging them! Threaten to withdraw votes, membership dues, to protest them publicly in other (non violent) ways. I'm not gonna say print stickers and paste them everywhere (unless you own whatever you'd stick it to of course), but spread the word to those who can inflict change and to those who just aren't aware of it.
Get mad folks, now's the time cos tomorrow there'll be less of us and that'll only keep getting worse.
 
Gelae donut said:
Especially if they created a fund for some who can in fact afford to strike, to be able to provide some funds to those that cannot.
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There have been a few university strikes my husband has felt he couldn't participate in - either because he was abroad at conferences etc or because he felt he was on the "them" side of it - which he has supported by donating to the strike fund.
 
Technician Q said:
There have been a few university strikes my husband has felt he couldn't participate in - either because he was abroad at conferences etc or because he felt he was on the "them" side of it - which he has supported by donating to the strike fund.
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I'm in Scotland and our pay is way better, I'd 100% donate to a strike fund and strike as well. It literally helps us all.
It just takes one of the unions to set it up. I keep getting vague responses from Unison, but still trying and hoping others do to, the more of us talk about it the more they have to acknowledge they have to get their heads outta somewhere and get on it.
 
Gelae donut said:
I swear the most common sentence on here is "I can't afford to strike" followed by apathy and zero intentions to do even what wouldn't cost money. Email people, send letters, walk to the local MP office, talk about your issues to those who might not know. Costs of these = minimal or free.

My question however is: with ever increasing interest and ever stagnating pay cuts, surely it comes down to not being able to afford to strike but also not able to afford to carry on as is.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. So might as well?
I know there are some who seem more content to just leave this profession to die off or to leave the next generation of science technicians to get hurt or to cause hurt due to inexperience and apathy. I am not.
Given that some unions have spoken about financial support for those on strike...it seems the better option.
Especially if they created a fund for some who can in fact afford to strike, to be able to provide some funds to those that cannot.
We are after all, in the same sinking boat and a longer strike combined with multiple unions and disciplines including teachers...that would actually do something and all of us would be better off for it.

As for those wondering where the government would get the money...for the love of Jibbers Crabst the government can suddenly find funds for...
  • red carpet for visiting leaders no matter how vile
  • war
  • tax breaks for giant corporations and super wealthy individuals
  • bonuses and/or wages of MPs who sleep through their jobs
  • security for our ridiculous amount of living ex-PMs
  • payouts for avoidable safety incidents (which better pay and more hours for safety positions such as ours would reduce)
...maybe just let them figure out themselves where the money is coming from for this one.
I'm sure they can find the money.
I am certain they can.
If for an incredibly specific example Sir David Attenborough were to die tomorrow I guarantee they'd find funds for a funeral which would cost more than our wage increase (which, yes, the man is great, but still the point stands and I'm sure if he were given the choice of the two he'd choose school safety instead).
After all they keep cutting funding to schools, year after year telling schools to save more money. There is no such thing as exponential savings. It's not "finding" money it's giving us back what was stolen as we are squeezed beyond dry.

Some councils are literally picking your pockets with their offers of pay "increases" and then telling you they don't have change to spare when you can't afford the bus.
Time to get the mousetraps out.
Get angry and get proactive with it: write to your unions, MPs, to the PM, make it known that you are willing, wanting and needing to strike but you are not financially comfortable to be able to exercise your HUMAN RIGHT (Article 11) and that it is their fault that you are having to exercise this in other ways by messaging them! Threaten to withdraw votes, membership dues, to protest them publicly in other (non violent) ways. I'm not gonna say print stickers and paste them everywhere (unless you own whatever you'd stick it to of course), but spread the word to those who can inflict change and to those who just aren't aware of it.
Get mad folks, now's the time cos tomorrow there'll be less of us and that'll only keep getting worse.
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Appologies but im not politcial but this is the 2020s not the 1970s when we used to gather in the canteen at dinner time, have a show of hands, then the imottal words "Everybody out". Watch the early 70s film Carry on at your Convience youll get the picture! Yes i appricate where your coming from but unfortantley this is the world we live in
 
Blackadder said:
Appologies but im not politcial but this is the 2020s not the 1970s when we used to gather in the canteen at dinner time, have a show of hands, then the imottal words "Everybody out". Watch the early 70s film Carry on at your Convience youll get the picture! Yes i appricate where your coming from but unfortantley this is the world we live in
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I'm not old enough to be familiar with the 1970s, but the economic and political state then is obviously not relevant to now and I'm not suggesting what you are saying by any means.
As for comparing this to a Carry on film...this is literally people's livelihoods and the future of safety in science, not a joke.

Yes we need to strike and yes if we could somehow just have all of us to walk out for a long time and be financially ok from it that would be good, but my post does clearly talk about how to get us prepared for a strike, how to get it to be effective and financially viable, how to start by making folks aware, it does however start with the mentality of "this needs to change, it can change, and I can get the ball rolling on that change".
We are losing our livelihoods. Teachers, students and our replacements are going to get hurt. We need to care.
I'm not trying to incite rioting or whatever you read into there: I'm trying to incite the knowledge that we DO matter and we can't enact change without taking that to heart.
I'm not suggesting we walk out on the spur of the moment, we know that downing tools doesn't work for us: I'm suggesting we talk to those that can enact change to suggest they do so whilst we prepare to strike, organise unions and prepare to support those that can't strike due to financial reasons...
 
Gelae donut said:
Gelae donut said:
As for comparing this to a Carry on film...this is literally people's livelihoods and the future of safety in science, not a joke.

Yes we need to strike and yes if we could somehow just have all of us to walk out for a long time and be financially ok from it that would be good, but my post does clearly talk about how to get us prepared for a strike, how to get it to be effective and financially viable, how to start by making folks aware, it does however start with the mentality of "this needs to change, it can change, and I can get the ball rolling on that change".
We are losing our livelihoods. Teachers, students and our replacements are going to get hurt. We need to care.
I'm not trying to incite rioting or whatever you read into there: I'm trying to incite the knowledge that we DO matter and we can't enact change without taking that to heart.
I'm not suggesting we walk out on the spur of the moment, we know that downing tools doesn't work for us: I'm suggesting we talk to those that can enact change to suggest they do so whilst we prepare to strike, organise unions and prepare to support those that can't strike due to financial reasons...
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I can't really get where you're coming from here. There seems to be an insistence on your part that our role is crucial - but the reality is, that almost no roles are crucial. If doctors suddenly fled our country, people would turn to medicine men instead. Of course, society would be worse off for it, but it doesn't affect the issue - despite drastic change, people carry on.

If technical skills keep being devalued in academic settings the way they already are, it's essentially lamplighters striking because of electricity. There's little to be done to stem the tide.

If our job becomes putting extremely safe experiments in classrooms, well then of course nearly anyone can walk in and do that, it's a resource management job first and foremost.

From the things I've heard about this job in the past, it seems like people walked into it with no knowledge anyway.
 
Blackadder said:
Appologies but im not politcial but this is the 2020s not the 1970s when we used to gather in the canteen at dinner time, have a show of hands, then the imottal words "Everybody out". Watch the early 70s film Carry on at your Convience youll get the picture! Yes i appricate where your coming from but unfortantley this is the world we live in
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Almost all forms of labour and the people who do them are being devalued and wage stagnation is endemic across multiple industries. I can't see how the current situation is specific to science technicians at all.

The main benefits to this job are access to resources, a community where it's becoming scarcer, and you really do get out of it what you put into it. Lonely and frustrating as it is sometimes. Jobs are more than wages.
 
Physchemni said:
The main benefits to this job are access to resources ...
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So the main benefit to the job is having material to facilitate the job ...? That's a particularly blinkered view.

There are three types of technician in education:
1) Unqualified providing basic KS4 science support.
2) Qualified, perhaps with an A level and providing either basic support or pushing a basic A level syllabus with little extra knowledge to further that.
3) "Over qualified" either academically or vocationally who not only perform the duties required but are able to further the education of the kids outside the restriction of the basic syllabus.

I know where our school sits and where it's going. That is not a good thing.

On top of this is the syllabus delivery. If there is a facility to educate, rather than simply deliver a basic syllabus, then you need both teachers and people who are able to support that push. The question is, do the Government wish to educate kids or just have the schools tick some statistical, basic level, boxes marked "adequate"?

I also know that people in all the three brackets are feeling under resourced, under paid and under respected even though they do it because they want to. Contrary to your feeling, I've seen what happens when there are no technicians and it's not pretty and certainly impacts education.

In my opinion, ability to supply a balanced and progressive education requires technician support. The current comments about vocational training by the PM are just going to throw money at "Training Academy" type environments yet again. It didn't work the first time, or even after a relight, and I see no reason why it should now but it will require tech support - if it doesn't include any, it has automatically failed as a practical qualification.
 
HatMan said:
So the main benefit to the job is having material to facilitate the job ...? That's a particularly blinkered view.
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No - the school generates a lot of waste, and some of that waste enriches my life in the form of scrap paper for my daughter, a microscope we use at home often that was replaced due to age even though it was working perfectly, an amber bottle from the 1970s seconds away from smashing in a glass bin that makes a lovely vase, a hi-res scanner, lever arch files... I mean material for use in my life that you struggle to find outside of a school.

The question is, do the Government wish to educate kids or just have the schools tick some statistical, basic level, boxes marked "adequate"?
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Schools are more concerned with marketing and exam grades than education in a quest for funding, and practicals are the thing that takes the hit. Teachers know it, leadership know it, until parents make a fuss and start pulling their kids out of adequately performing schools in favour of sending them to schools where they do lots of practicals, little will change.

I am the only science technician at my school. I expect to remain so. It's rated as one of the best in the country for A-Level, exactly because practicals are dropped or replaced with demos. If it weren't for the teachers and exam boards digging their heels in they'd be gone tomorrow around here.

Is it right? No. I am a practical person and I value the skills. Society, however, doesn't care, it has become shallower in my own time and I expect the trend to continue where the average person can't tie their own shoelaces, because they never bothered to learn (or more accurately, they weren't taught). As long as the shoes come with velcro, no one cares.

Do I wish it were different? Of course. But anyone who enjoys being practically-minded is in a dwindling minority and it is very easy to see that also. Somehow, other people remain in steady employment and some of them even earn far more than I.
 
Lonetechnician said:
I have a feeling the 60% marginal tax rate above £100,000 is going to disappear very soon....
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Top rate of income tax is 45% in the uk (give or take the reduction in personal tax allowance over £100k), the 60%(ish) marginal tax rate is a built-in statistical anomaly only between £100k and £125K (which shouldn't exist in my opinion) and one reason for so many workarounds which makes tax law even more complicated. Everyone should pay tax on their entire income (apart from the tax allowance at the bottom which everyone should get), no extra bands, just *all* their income, including income being paid as a loan or shares from your own company ... here's looking at several politicians, not just Farrage (rhymes with cabbage) ...
 
Jonesy said:
Our pay rise came through today, 3%, not backdated. We get our raises in September, so always on a back foot with already rising bills in April.
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ours is 3.3 and backdated, County hope to get it in this months pay.

That will be handy, I seem to have missed a meter reading on the solar so I won't get my September payment till Christmas.
 
We already got ours back in May. Our leaders take the view that it doesn't cost them any extra to do it then. Also, a large back dated pay packet one moth could inadvertently impact people claiming UC and they don't want to do that. We're told if the agreed number is actually higher they'll then back date that, if it is lower then hey ho they foot it. They want to do right by staff and its really nice to see.
 
CrowyTech said:
We already got ours back in May. Our leaders take the view that it doesn't cost them any extra to do it then. Also, a large back dated pay packet one moth could inadvertently impact people claiming UC and they don't want to do that. We're told if the agreed number is actually higher they'll then back date that, if it is lower then hey ho they foot it. They want to do right by staff and its really nice to see.
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Were getting ours in Sept pay on 25th,backdated.

Im guessing they will take a chunk from my U.C to balance it out.
 
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